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TexasPromowear
11-07-2010, 06:55 AM
Can anyone share their experience of a really good poly-white for red polyester running singlets? We are currently using Wilflex Polywhite with good results but the ink can sometimes be a little unpredictable on the auto, particularly with the print being a large (8"x8") solid white square with 2 additional colors on top. The ink tends to be a little thick and we're a little nervous about adding too much curable reducer as that will lower the bleed resistance. The best thing we've come up with so far is adding a small amount of reducer and standing the squeegee up almost vertical and using a semi-hard flood. We're shoving it through an 83 mesh.

Anyone got any better ideas?

John Sheridan
11-07-2010, 10:32 AM
Use the Wilflex Gray blocker as your first down. Problem solved.

Hit up Ink Girl for the specs.

T Shirt1
11-08-2010, 06:21 AM
Can anyone share their experience of a really good poly-white for red polyester running singlets? We are currently using Wilflex Polywhite with good results but the ink can sometimes be a little unpredictable on the auto, particularly with the print being a large (8"x8") solid white square with 2 additional colors on top. The ink tends to be a little thick and we're a little nervous about adding too much curable reducer as that will lower the bleed resistance. The best thing we've come up with so far is adding a small amount of reducer and standing the squeegee up almost vertical and using a semi-hard flood. We're shoving it through an 83 mesh.

Anyone got any better ideas?
Instead of curable reducer we add a little Bright Tiger to the poly white. Also it looks to us like the poly white has a little blowing agent in it which means we won't use it as an underbase. I sure would like to try some of the grey Mr. Sheridan has mentioned. Also we go to great lengths to make sure our dryer is runnning cool and slow.

Ink Girl
11-08-2010, 08:09 AM
Hello!!!

PolyWhite is a high level of bleed resistance, which can cause it to be rather thick. The best thing to use with it to reduce it or make it easier to print is Viscosity Buster. You can cuse it in really really small percentages. Start with 0.5% by weight and you can go up to 3% by weight. You should not need to go that high. You will see a change as soon as you add it.

Another options, expecially if the garment is stretchy is the Epic Performance White. It is easy to print, great bleed resistance, great elongation, and low cure.

And of course the is UB Gray.

I have attached all the PIBs.

Erin

Bill Hood
11-08-2010, 12:27 PM
Yes, there are solutions, but let's consider first what is happening when we print ink onto a substrate that is susceptible to bleeding.

The dyes in the fabric are the first problem to consider. Most dyes, especially those on the surface of synthetic threads, when heated to perhaps 185F (85C) will turn to a liquid and thus mix with any other liquid quite easily, i.e. wet ink that is printed onto the surface of the dyes.

And, the more liquid the ink, the faster and more prevalent this move, by the now liquid dye to the surface of the ink will be. Adding any liquid to an ink will cause the problem to become worse, not better.

The very best method to stop the dye migration is to print a very thin layer of an ink that can be gelled at a very low temperature, thus producing a solid barrier to the dye before printing a more liquid ink onto the surface of this barrier.

All other factors being equal, dark color inks will gel faster than light color inks, as they require less heat and time, i.e. they will absorb the heat and gel much quicker. Our UltraSol Gray Block consists of a special compound to reduce the ability of these dyes to penetrate, a less liquid formula, and a much faster gel time and lower temperature.

We have also found that our non-phthalate, low-bleed line of UltraSol Inks are much more effective in blocking dye migration than regular plastisols. We have experienced even more reduction by printing a first down layer through a very fine mesh to produce a very thin ink deposit that can be gelled quite quickly with far less heat than a thicker deposit and produce a solid barrier.

Keep in mind that when printing ink through an 83-mesh at nominal tension and EOM you are producing an ink deposit of perhaps 200-microns or more. Consider for a moment, the cooking of pancakes - the thicker the pancakes the longer you must wait before the bottom surface is gelled and you can flip the pancake.

While we don't flip our ink deposit, it is still true that the thicker the ink deposit the more heat is required to gel the ink. And, if you are using a print, flash, print technique all that heat is doing nothing more than attracting the dye toward the heat, mixing with the plasticizer of the ink until you have migration.

ZooCity
11-08-2010, 12:41 PM
We have experienced even more reduction by printing a first down layer through a very fine mesh to produce a very thin ink deposit that can be gelled quite quickly with far less heat than a thicker deposit and produce a solid barrier.

Holy crap Bill, yer actually talking about flashing!?!? [scared]

bimmridder
11-08-2010, 01:05 PM
And I have yet learned something else I have been wrong about for many years. I always thought the ink went from a solid to a gas. I'm getting smarter every day.

Ink Girl
11-08-2010, 01:37 PM
The addition of viscosity buster will not effect the bleed resistance as it is added in such low quantities. Another quick note. Epic Performance inks cure at 290F, so they will gel and cure lower which helps with the sublimitation that may occur with the dyes found in polyesters.

TexasPromowear
11-08-2010, 01:52 PM
The addition of viscosity buster will not effect the bleed resistance as it is added in such low quantities. Another quick note. Epic Performance inks cure at 290F, so they will gel and cure lower which helps with the sublimitation that may occur with the dyes found in polyesters.

Erin, I dig all that except the cost. According to the latest pricing for the Epic Perfformance White from our distributor, that stuff must have gold flakes in it. They want 35% more than standard poly-white. Ouch! From $80 to $115 a gallon is a bit of a stretch for us. No pun intended.

Bill Hood
11-08-2010, 03:51 PM
And I have yet learned something else I have been wrong about for many years. I always thought the ink went from a solid to a gas. I'm getting smarter every day.

Have you ever seen plastisol ink become a gas under heat? And, if so, how would it adhere to the shirt?

bimmridder
11-08-2010, 03:59 PM
I meant to say the dye in the garment. Sorry for my mistake. It won't happen again. Cripes.

Ink Girl
11-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Erin, I dig all that except the cost. According to the latest pricing for the Epic Perfformance White from our distributor, that stuff must have gold flakes in it. They want 35% more than standard poly-white. Ouch! From $80 to $115 a gallon is a bit of a stretch for us. No pun intended.


I don't know the chemistry, so their might be gold in it. [laugh] Seriously, it is a great product that is great to print and gives great comfort in bleed resistance. If you haven't sampled it yet, request one from your distributor. You will really like it.

TexasPromowear
06-17-2011, 07:21 AM
OK, we have obtained our first gallon of Epic Performance White. Although nice and creamy, we're finding that after flash, it is very tacky and when laying down the top second color, the print wants to stick to the other colors. This is even after a 3 station cool down with a fan on it.

Too little flash? Too much flash? We're having to stroke it twice to get full coverage on navy on one pass. Should we be using a second white screen after the flash and hitting the second color while this second white is still wet?

Advice here would be wonderful. Thanks!

Ink Girl
06-17-2011, 08:32 AM
Too much flash. We are flashing at 80% power, 350 F for 2.5 seconds. Cool down station after.

What material are you printing on?

TexasPromowear
06-17-2011, 11:52 AM
We just finished the job with the Epic Performance White. We ended up adding 1.5% Viscocity Buster and printed the job with 2 white 110 screens and them a small cover of orange on some of the white. Given the nature of the Sport-Tek 5-ounce, 95/5 poly/spandex thin t-shirts, we didn't want a bullet proof print. They came out pretty nice but I think we suffered a bit on opacity. Definitely not bullet proof but I wish they would have been a tad bit more opaque on the white. And I know we won't have to worry about dye migration. Quartz flash at 3 seconds.

Lizard
06-18-2011, 10:03 PM
Rutland Claira Super Poly, stuff is fantastic and cost effective. Sometimes use two layers of white then top color depending on the fabric. Prints very easy and super white.